In this episode of You’re Not Crazy, Ray Ortlund and Sam Allberry encourage pastors to rest their souls in Christ, not as an option, but as an imperative.
“We're like sprinters, we're hurtling down the track at top speed, giving it our best, giving it our all. But, we’re not made of titanium, and we can't live at full stretch all the time. We must pull back and be replenished, and experience rejuvenation for the next big push.” – Ray Ortlund
In this episode of You’re Not Crazy, Ray Ortlund and Sam Allberry address the need for pastors to rest. In an unprecedented time fraught with fragmentation and a heartbreaking number of pastors collapsing under the weight of leadership in these circumstances, rest is not an option, it’s an imperative for the soul.
• Introductions (0:00)
• Favorite foods (2:19)
• We’re like sprinters (3:49)
• Rest is not just a part of the fallen world (5:50)
• We don’t have to rest perfectly (7:19)
• We need regular renewal (10:51)
• “Go to sleep in peace. God is awake.” (14:17)
• Where we find refreshment (18:14)
• Recommended resource: The Death of Porn by Ray Ortlund (20:50)
The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
Ray Ortlund
This is not easy. It's not meant to be easy. We're not hoping it will be easy. But it's worth doing.
Sam Allberry
It's worth doing. And it's It's unusually hard for many of us in the times in which we live right now. Post pandemic post everything else so much fragmentation. It's, it's an easy time for pastors to feel like this might be here I quit
Ray Ortlund
Hi, this is Ray ortlund. Welcome to you're not crazy. Gospel Saturday for young pastors, and I'm here with my friend, Sam Albury. Hey, right. And thank you for joining us on this episode, this, this podcast is well, even pastors who aren't young are listening to it. Even those who aren't pastors are listening to it. Sam, how would you articulate your your dearest hope for this podcast the difference that this might make? Oh,
Sam Allberry
right. Our longing is my longing is only by God's grace that this might help. Many churches become more sensitive to the very kind of relational beauty that Christ leaves in his wake? Yes, that we would. It might be one of the ways that helps us move away from churches that are, in one sense doctrinally sound and yet very rigid and harsh and cold. And actually help us to have churches where the very love of Christ itself feels like a felt reality.
Ray Ortlund
That is brilliantly stated. Well, we both believe in this fervently. Yeah. And we also want to say to pastors, we want to encourage them. Yeah, this is not easy. It's not meant to be easy. We're not hoping it will be easy. But it's worth doing.
Sam Allberry
It's worth doing. And it's It's unusually hard for many of us in the times in which we live right now. Post pandemic post, everything else so much fragmentation. It's it's an easy time for pastors to feel like, this might be the year I quit.
Ray Ortlund
So let's stick together. Let's get through this together. Now before we jump into finding rest for your soul, which is our topic for this episode. Let me ask you, Sam, what is your favorite food?
Sam Allberry
What you're not going to approve of it? But um, it's Thai food.
Ray Ortlund
Oh, my goodness. No comment. Thai food. What? What is interesting, why do you like that? Well, I
Sam Allberry
grew up with with what you eat, which is meat and two veg. The most exotic we ever really ate when I was a kid probably was pizza. So I just had never, and I didn't really go for spicy food or anything like that. I'd never encountered these other flavors and cuisines until my 20s. And I found myself in Thailand in my early 20s. I was working for a Christian mission organization that was doing work out there. I was out there for a few weeks. Someone put food in front of me. I started eating and I was like, I've never tasted this before. What Where's where's this been all my life. And it's the combination of kind of a bit of spice a bit of sweetness. A bit of citrus in there. Oh, wow. It's good.
Ray Ortlund
I'm so glad you enjoy it. Mine would be Jenny's venison chili with cornbread. And her cornbread is not dry. It's moist and so delicious.
Sam Allberry
I have had some of Jenny's venison is in fact, for lunch today. We had elk minestrone. Oh, gosh. So good. The Alarie die in vain.
Ray Ortlund
Lourdes elk. Alright, so finding rest for our souls, Sam, here we are. We're like sprinters, we're hurtling down the track at top speed giving it our best giving it our all. But we're not made of titanium. And we can't live at full stretch all the time. We must pull back and be replenished and experienced rejuvenation for the next big push. Yeah. So help us understand what what is there? What wisdom from God do we have about finding rest for our souls in the course of the exertions of pastoral ministry?
Sam Allberry
Yeah, it's an urgent question. And even in the narrative of the Gospels, we see the need of it. In Mark six, verse 31, we're told Jesus said to His disciples, Come away by yourselves to a desolate place and rest a while. For many were coming and going and they had no leisure even to eat. Sometimes ministry feels like that. There's just no let up. The phone never stops ringing that the emails never stopped coming. If we're thinking or wait for a quiet moment, it never comes. And if, if Jesus and the disciples needed to take a step back for rest, how much more do the rest of us I mean, we see this pattern throughout the Gospels where Jesus will withdraw, often to a desolate place just to get away from everybody else, have time with the Lord with with the Father. And to kind of and to rest in himself. So I can't say well, I'm I'm, you know, Jesus needed respite. I'm just too indispensable. If it was okay for Jesus to withdraw, and to recharge, then it certainly the world can definitely survive. Not having me around in the saddle for a few hours or doubting,
Ray Ortlund
rest is built into reality. Because the the fourth commandment of Exodus 20, to keep the Sabbath day, the rationale for it goes all the way back to the creation. Yeah. And so the pattern of human flourishing includes periodic rest. This is not this is not a forsaking of the call of God, it is a part of the call of God.
Sam Allberry
Yeah. And it's not just a part of the fallen world. But that's
Ray Ortlund
a great point. I'd never thought of that. This is pre fall. Yeah, this is God risk resting. It says, well, that's really striking,
Sam Allberry
okay. And it means that and this is such a danger for, for so many of us, because we believe in what we're doing. Because we feel the urgency of what we're doing. It's hard for us to stop. It's never convenient to stop. And there's a bit of a set feels like we're being heroic if we just keep going. And if we're working, it's very easy, right? I've seen this time. And again, there can be ministry cultures, where, unless you are working ridiculous hours and are constantly exhausted, you're just not pulling your weight. And so there's this kind of almost silly, macho thing, where, how many hours are you working? Well, I'm going to work more than that, because I'm really committed.
Ray Ortlund
That's so foolish. And you know, God is so merciful, I think, for example of First Kings 18 and 19. Elijah has that dramatic confrontation about karma with the prophets of Baal. And God demonstrates His glory in a wonderful way. It's a huge win for the gospel. And not after not long after that, Elijah collapses. Yeah. And he went from this high point into kind of curled up on the floor in the fetal position. Yeah. And in that weakness, the Lord met him and came to him and spoke to him very profoundly, and invested in Elijah for the rest of his life. So even when Elijah was unwise and running from life and from ministry God that was not the end of his ministry God took him to a deeper level so we don't have to rest perfectly yeah for this to be a ministry of God to us he's very merciful in that way.
Sam Allberry
It's striking to me right that very episode that it's it is after that big spiritual High Point climax intensity it's after that that the crash happens in it. I see that rhythm on a much smaller scale in in my own life that often it's it's Monday where the pastor is most despondent after the sort of all the exertion of the previous day Monday is where the self doubt the second guessing self loathing kicks in and it's easy to think, Lord I'm I'm failing at everything Why have you put me in this situation? Where are you anyway? And you know, everything can look very bleak. Say there's something very telling, almost reassuring that it's it's after such a spiritual high that Elijah has that that complete crash. And if memory serves I've not looked at the text for a little while but I'm a my writing thinking the very first thing God does famous just, it's just feed him. It doesn't sort of give him a, you know, four hour speech right away. He just tends to his physical needs.
Ray Ortlund
Our Lord is the best boss to work for in the whole universe. He understands us, he accepts us. He's not depending on us. But he's coming through for us, feeding us for example, giving us based arrest. One of the reasons why it's hard for us to act except the humility of rest and rejuvenation is not only as you say this sort of strange grandiosity, we allow into our minds our feelings of indispensability, but also the very opposite feelings of shame, feelings of futility of defeat adness of failure, Monday thinking, no one is going to come back to this church next Sunday. Yeah, not after my sorry, performance yesterday. And that profound sort of devastation, feelings, we become exhausted not just from exertion, but from a fear of a feelings of futility. That no matter how hard I try, I'm not making any difference at all.
Sam Allberry
And that feeling itself is exhausting. Yes, it is.
Ray Ortlund
So we have to find every pastor, if he's married, in conversation with his wife has got to find a way to enter into renewal on a regular basis. I think this is Philippians, 212 and 13. Work out your own salvation, with fear and trembling for God is at work and you figure it out for yourself. It's it's like appetite, like Thai food might or might not work. And my form of renewal and rest and rejuvenation might not work for you. But God has a way for every one of us, to give ourselves permission to let God be God. And to let ourselves be needy. And enter into renewal.
Sam Allberry
Yeah, it's theologically significant, isn't it rest. It's, it's not unspiritual. It's not, I'm taking my foot off the Christian pedal. For 24 hours, actually, it's part of our spirituality. We, we've misunderstood Christian spirituality, if we sort of feel as though rest is this necessary, evil, this necessary pause in between the real stuff, it is part of the real stuff, it's
Ray Ortlund
really profound. I wish we had more retreat centers, places where I remember Sam, when I was a pastor, in Oregon, for example, there was a Catholic, I think seminary slash retreat center not far away. And regularly I would go out there and for almost nothing in terms of cost. I could be in this simple, spare even Spartan room, and be alone and quiet. And still, I would bring a notebook. And I would with my Bible, I wouldn't bring any work. I wouldn't bring a laptop. And I would spend time with the Lord. reading scripture journaling than taking a walk, coming, coming back, having a nap. reading scripture, journaling, taking a walk and so forth. I came back from those days deepened and refreshed. I never once returned, thinking that was a waste of time.
Sam Allberry
Yeah. And that the previous two churches, I've worked at the nearest place to do that were also Catholic places. I wonder why there aren't more reformed retreat centers, I'm sure there are some out there and I don't know about them. But I wonder if it says something of a, of a neglect in our thinking in our theology and our spirituality that it's often the Catholic ones that we end up having to go to that's so
Ray Ortlund
interesting, because Reformed theology does not dispense with the 10 commandments name, but relocates them within the framework of the gospel and God's grace. But the fourth commandment remains there.
Sam Allberry
Reformed theology doesn't, but I think maybe reformed culture does. Yeah. And we can be very activist and unless I'm out there swashbuckling for the gospel. That's the only thing that matters. Now, how
Ray Ortlund
crazy is that? That people with Reformed theology would not have a culture that builds in rest,
Sam Allberry
because part of the reason we rest is precisely because we believe in the sovereignty of God. Yes. Telesat Victor Hugo, quote, you often tweet this when you go to bed at 7pm each night. Yeah.
Ray Ortlund
Victor Hugo, great, quote, go to sleep in peace. God is awake. And I have that on the sort of a graphic I love to tweet that toward the end of the day. not infrequently, because we need to be told for a theological reason to go to sleep in peace. Yeah.
Sam Allberry
Yeah. And it's a sign of our, our confidence in God that we can Yeah. Rob mentioned this text before once or twice, but I I always keep coming back to mark for the parable of the growing seed. It's lovely short one. Jesus says the kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed on the ground. He sleeps and rises night and day and the seed sprouts and grows, He Knows not how the Earth produces by itself, first the blade and the ear, then the full grain in the air, and so on. And I love that verse, that parable, because it shows me there are two things we do if we believe in the power of the Word of God. One is that we scatter the seed, because that's where the power is, that's it is the word of God that will will accomplish the work of God. So that's why we preach the Word. But the other thing we do if we really have confidence that the power is in the word is we can then sleep. Because the word is the thing that is at work. I don't, I don't have to be at work the whole time. I can I can sow the seed, and then I can sleep and know that it will be doing the work for which God has has had brought it forth in the first place. Thank you for pointing
Ray Ortlund
that out. I don't think I've ever seen that. So clearly, the sleeping is not incidental to the point of the parable. It is material to the point of the parable. Yeah. So that the farmer sews the seed then he sleeps and the earth brings forth is that
Sam Allberry
what the Earth produces by itself, first the blade than it is what the Bible doesn't say is a man should scatter seed on the ground. And then he sits on the ground by the seed, staring at it, speaking to it, trying to coax it out of the ground obsessing over it, yeah, fretting. Now he can go to bed. Because from that point, nature will do what nature does, and just the earth by itself will produce will produce that the harvest.
Ray Ortlund
And Jesus says the kingdom of God is like this. Yeah.
Sam Allberry
That's not all we have to say about minister is not I'm not saying we preach a sermon and then sleep for six days and then preach a sermon and sleep for six days. But it means that we can rest because it's not ultimately down to us. We don't make people Christians, we don't grow them as Christians. God amazingly does that he chooses to do that for some reason through the ministry of His servants. But it means that actually, it's okay for me to go to bed. Because the power is in the seed and by itself, it will produce the crop I don't need to be. I don't need to follow every congregation member home and keep re preaching the sermon to them and badgering them and have you understood that bit yet. I can let the word do its work. I can have a nap on a Sunday afternoon.
Ray Ortlund
Therefore proper rest is a matter of humility.
Sam Allberry
It is it's a matter of it's an expression of faith. Otherwise, what we can be saying by not resting is I don't trust this stuff to happen unless I'm doing it. Well.
Ray Ortlund
Maybe we could actually be you know, legit reformed, believe in the sovereignty of God. And when it's appropriate, step away, take a break be refreshed.
Sam Allberry
Right justice or on a week to week basis. And with the caveat you've already given us that it's different for each person. What are some of the things that help you find refreshment?
Ray Ortlund
I find refreshment. Taking a walk with my wife listening to great music. I almost I'm to my own amazement, I almost never listened to 60s oldies anymore. I mean, I almost I listened almost entirely exclusively to classical music. Because it resonates with my soul. And I feel lifted up by it. So taking walks with Jenny listening to great music. And then of course, I'm sorry, but getting out into the woods. hunting, hiking, doing physical manual labor, clearing a shooting lane putting up a new tree stand exerting myself physically. What do you do Sam that was rejuvenating for you.
Sam Allberry
Many of those things, one or two significant exceptions to that. But I love hiking I love being out in nature walks with friends, getting lost in a piece of music, cooking a meal, cooking a meal for someone else. I love doing that I just find that that seems to utilize all the bits of my brain that I don't normally get to use during the week. And there's something about being out in the countryside. One writer it might have been Wendell Berry but if not someone like that said that the Bible is an outdoors book. So much of the Bible is is about nature in outdoors in nature so in parables are all outside that's not you know the kingdom of God is like Imagine sitting on his couch and watching TV. So there's there's something about being outside and in nature that that is always refreshing to me. Even if it's a rainy day, I'll still stick on my English obstacle account and go for a walk.
Ray Ortlund
The exteriority of things is psychologically healthy. Yeah. Noticing that, yeah, connecting with that getting outside my own.
Sam Allberry
Yet the world is still there. Yes. And it didn't need me to be fretting for it to be there.
Ray Ortlund
And it's waiting to be enjoyed all over again.
Sam Allberry
You've used a phrase in the past, then pneus of it. There's something about the then ness of of the natural world that is helpful to recalibrate us.
Ray Ortlund
Well. Thank you sound that's very, very helpful. Okay, what crossway? Is the publisher crossway books who sponsor this podcast? We're grateful to crossway Yeah, we trust them and respect them.
Sam Allberry
We do we revere the work that they do. And Ray, I was gonna ask you we, in the previous season, you had mentioned that your new book, The Death of porn was shortly to release, right, it has since released, tell us how, how that's going, the kind of feedback you're getting. Just give us a quick synopsis of it first, and then a consistent
Ray Ortlund
theme, Sam, I'm getting in response to the death of porn is Christian men, gathering small groups of other men together to read this one chapter at a time, and discuss it together very honestly. And in candor, and in confidentiality together. I just think that that's how that book really works, and really helps. It is so freeing to sit down with a Christian brother, and prompted by a book like that has have a serious conversation about what isn't working in my life, and how I'm not doing well. And pray together. It is. That is when everything starts getting better. Yeah, in that kind of conversation. So I'm seeing it happen. And I'm very grateful.
Sam Allberry
We've seen that the fruit of that already at Emanuel haven't been with with our Men's Ministry and seeing groups of men, including young men, young teenagers, getting into those conversations. And that the mutual dignifying that is going on in those conversations. Men lifting one another up. It's beautiful. It's very powerful. So thank you, Ray, for writing that. Thank you, Crosby for publishing it, and for helping us and encouraging us in this podcast.
Ray Ortlund
Thanks, everybody. See you next time.